Why make more new rules and classes when the rules and the classes are already in place.

A small group have been talking about this for a couple of years now and always falls on deaf ears, people don't want this, don't want new extra classes.

Well I will have my say, we need a vintage class, by this I mean that there are a lot of original benchrest guns, the old Halls, sleeved Remingtons, Sakos all the bench guns that people used before the Bats, Stolles etc, these guns can be very accurate at times, a lot of new shooters can use these as an introduction to benchrest, there are a lot of these out there.

Rule changes?? there are none, the same rules for sporter, Light varmint and heavy, no rule changes at all, there could be a small trophy for the first place for these shooters, how can a shoot afford the small cost of a $20.00 trophy and if they win the class they take the big prize, these guns can still shoot well and could still clean up some of the big guns.

You may be able to pick up 10 extra shooters for a match like the Australia Day match that would be $850.00 a day and ten more shooters, $20.00 trophy seems like nothing, I am sure it could be afforded for not much more work.

This is the life today make new rules and new laws, why don't we just enforce the rules and laws we have so nothing changes. 

So if anyone has these guns pass them on instead of getting them destroyed, as said all these shooters may be looking for target on their licence, these old benchrest guns can shoot way better then the hunting guns out there, you let any hunter have a shot out of Bench guns they can not believe what they just did.

Talk about this between your selfs, let us know at Australia Day, see you then.

Hi all

Potentially a positive can come out of the new NSW gun restrictions and that is the opportunity for the target community to create a platform for the hunters to re-classify some of their firearms into a Target situation.

As I have harped on for years is this type of venture needs to be initiated at a range club level and not at a registered match scenario.
I have spent a lot of time talking to hunters at our Silverdale shoots and the mystery of short range intimidates them they see us shooting.1 and .2 groups on club days and say hell I’ll be able to compete with that.Good point.

The question is how do we make them a bit more competitive and potentially begin to enjoy short range.

I am a huge advocate for Grading in our discipline and it’s something that needs to be addressed as a means to make new and intermediate shooters feel more encouraged to push harder to achieve better results.
We need to look at things from the new shooters perspective.

Folks need to realise this is the only sport I know of that you compete against World Champions and HOF shooters straight from the get go, even at club levels.

To the new and shooters that’s not easy to grasp and it creates that “Oh I can’t do that”, mindset.
I know A Grade  shooters have worked hard to achieve those goals and help to mentor new and intermediate shooters but it’s not about that it’s about creating a discipline that encourages new and intermediate shooters to keep pushing for that higher standard and at least along the way receive some rewards for their efforts.

A simple thing to implement that could make a huge difference.

Shooters need to be eased into our discipline and it’s not an easy one to grasp with the whole moving benches reloading etc it can be daunting.

I agree with Mark 100% that older outdated or unused rifles sitting in safes should become available to others at low cost to encourage new shooters.
A beginner can go and invest $10,000 + in all the best gear etc and still be non competitive for years before things might click if ever. 
Make a space available in our discipline for all shooters to be competitive against shooters equal to their level and experience. 

Hi Mark and Chris in interesting read, both have some opinions  and ideas that can be expanded to create informed decisions. Firstly lets discuss Marks Suggestions. 

Vintage class - sleeved Remingtons, old Halls, Sako's, I am seeking how many are out there. As you have pointed out could still clean up the big guns. A separate trophy of $20.00 for this class win and if they shoot the lights out win the match so that's a bit unfair only get the apple at won class or pay two entries. Create a separate trophy which will be aggregated by the scorer put into the class and then also have a go at the top position. Now the commentary that it may bring in 10 shooters to generate an Extra $850 for the match where are those ten shooters now. It may be the case the shooters you are suggesting are the very shooters now that shoot the Bat's and the Stolle's, there are also many other actions on the market that are competitive in Benchrest but you have to meet the weights in the rules as you have stated, good luck with sleeved Remington making Sporter of even Light Barrel. 

Mark great initiative so here is your challenge you put up the $20.00 for a Vintage class to be fair LV rules will apply and I will match your $20.00 so there is $40.00 as a trophy that you can present. You will have to collate the score and implement the presentation. Speak with Ian our National scorer who does an outstanding job I am sure he will be about to assist with scores. So please round up the potential 10 shooters should be a great event. 

Now on to Chris's comments.

I am super glad you have been speaking to Silverdale  members, a range that was built by Benchrest shooters and which held the 2013 WBC. The reloading room that is occupied by the hunters you are talking to was specifically built for the WBC. I have two national matches up for grabs hunter class and IRB both of these National events do not have a home yet. With such and interest from Silverdale please speak with your state delegates Mitchell Taller and Michael Thompson about the availability of that range to host a match. You will have to host a registered match before a National Can be approved but you have time. 

Now to grading.

The NRAA model has grading A, B, C, grades and this is taken on the average scores that are entered into a data base in the NRAA headquarters from prize meetings and Kings events. And the World Champion of Fullbore was Ben Emms who shoots against every other A grade shooter even me even if their percentages are just on 98%. 

NRAA grading has a cut off limit, as an example 98 and above A grade 94 to 98 B grade and 94 and below C grade. So how do you propose a grading on thousands of an inch so New shooters are as you have stated not shooting against HOF members who by the way are on an equal footing with every other shooter before the first group is fired and the last shot is fired.

My first Match was the Harry Madden in Queensland a rifle I had only just brought Stuart Elliot showed told me 29.6 of BM2 and here as some projectiles he did the seating depth ( at that time i didn't know how to do it properly) and i won the match and there were alot of HOF Australian Team members and World champions at the match so this sport is one sport where everyone has the opportunity to be on top of the list. 

The Benchrest community is inclusive and we are seeing shooters wining matches that are not HOF, Australian Team members, Rob Evans, Jason Edwards Match winners not HOF but are well on their way. 

Now to low cost rifles for new shooters well here you go find a new shooter I have a Hall Benchrest Rifle that has a Jewel Trigger Hart fluted barrel scope rail $2500 the criteria is - the recipient shoots the NSW 4 gun and the Nationals for the next 2 years running. I have a Remington XP 100 222  with original Leupold scope RTM stock $3000 with Dies. Same Rules apply. 

Please find these two brand new shooters and let's see how this progresses great idea Chris. 

Lastly the comment regarding someone spending 10k and non competitive for years is just not true. Mark Welsh Never been a Short range benchrest shooter who is now in the mentoring program lets see him shoot at Australia Day and the next Nationals. There are avenues for new shooters to learn. I will be hosting information sessions at the line on Australia Day come along you might learn something. 

Great thread and it has certainly raised some questions and responses. 

See you at Australia Day 

Good Shooting to all 

Les Fraser 

HOF 36 

Hi Mark found this perpetual trophy for the Vintage class your thoughts. 

Shooting Perpetual Trophy Plaque Timber 380x305mm (inc 24 plates) Engraved | eBay Australia

Thanks for your responses Les much appreciated.

When writing my previous post I was referring to gun owners not familiar with our discipline or in fact have never considered target shooting as an option.That’s where the 10k comes into effect.

The grading system doesn’t need to be a complicated numerical system.

Here is an option that could be implemented simply and quickly.

Any current HOF shooter or someone holding HOF points would be A Grade.

Anyone who has completed in a registered benchrest match and finished top 10 or better is B grade.

All other competitors full under C grade . C grade incorporates new shooters and hunting style rifles if applicable.

This would require a trophy for B grade winner and C grade winner.

a small cost if any .

There is no need for different scoring etc just simply grading a shooter based on their past results and changing that grading based on future results.

To Les as I stated earlier. Silverdale not an option.
Silverdale is now run by a Pty Ltd and the option of having exclusive use of the range over any weekend are not possible.

If any competition occurred it would be run by the range and all staff etc would need to be present and therefore this would come at a cost to the competitors.
All range rules would apply during these matches and there is way to many to list here.

Sadly due the ranges current staff and management We have lost 2 shooters who are no interested in the draconian rules at the range and are no longer competing in our club shoots 

Rimfire Competitions haven’t occurred at Silverdale for many many years not sure why!

Maybe contact shooters who compete in that discipline for an explanation.